Highlights.....

Changes.....

Message 13: Sun Aug 27 23:48:32 (read)
From: korg [To: caligari]
How does doing stuff repeatdly work in unkown armies? Eg, if I was in 
Doc's position (in a cop car in handcuffs and I had an escape skill of
say 05) could I keep rolling my skill until I got out? Or does it 
get harder or you cant reroll of somethin'? :) 


Message 9: Mon Aug 28 11:26:43 (read)
From: korg [To: caligari]
Questions: 
  damage in hand to hand is D10+D10 of what you roll, but howmany 'hitpoints' 
  does one have? How is damage done? (I know you were running that, but
  I ment as a general indication). like assuming the average wack is
  5+5 or 10 points, approx howmany thumps does it take to knock someone 
out? Im not asking for exacts, only approx's. :)


Message 21: Mon Aug 28 11:34:47 (read)
From: caligari [To: korg]
I'll give an exact, though, 'cause its goofey of me not to: Body
Your body stat is your hit points, more or less.
BUT...
There's a lot between hit points and damage, in a way.
For starters, matched successes can do a bunch more damage.
And damage is not all, dislocate a limb and its not going to be much use.
And most people take damage badly (probably not you, which is a 
MAJOR advantage you have), so it does not take anywhere near their Body
to get them out of a fight.
You don't heal much.
Guns still kill.
HtH is not the way to kill someone easily. You are not going to be a fist in
the stomach sorta character. But you'll hit a LOT (with the flipped dice), and
you'll do solid damage a lot of the time. Get a knife and you do more. And
you're damage will matter to anyone who is not a street fighter, matter a lot.
And even fighters (and yourself) will take penalties when wounded. More
situational than mechanical (although they are in the rules).
 
Average people have around 50 hit points.

Message 7: Mon Aug 28 11:40:42 (read)
From: korg [To: caligari]
Ok. Was just trying to get a feel for how drawn out combats would be
etc. *nod* Yeah. Cool. Was thinking of changing the '22' of my special
rolls to a knock down, but i think ill leave it as your cool snagged ya
and see how it goes when I actually fight. (not that a 1/100 change makes
much difference ;)
 
I just wondered if there was something like a 'stun' effect that some
games have like 

Message 10: Mon Aug 28 11:42:12 (read)
From: caligari [To: korg]
Oh, I wanted to run a system thing past you. I'm tossing up on whether
its worth the effort at all.

Experience (again!)  So you pay the points to raise a skill by a point.
You don't actually get the skill raised until some time has passed.
So experience is xp and time. And a skill increase is a process of
saying that your character is focusing on these things that he/she did
and getting better as a result, which takes time.

Time taken is based on the tens digit of the number you are going
to. Either in sessions or weeks (whichever comes first in the game)
and down an order of magnitude if the study is in-game full-time. Roughly.

So getting from 30 to 31 dodge (which is fine by me) costs 1 xp, and
then you get the point a few (3) sessions later. Going from 03 to 04 in
ballet takes 4 xp and takes no sessions (you have it next session). Going
from 89 to 90 human cannonball takes 10 xp and you have to wait nine
sessions. You probably want the character to be training at that point.

What do you think? It'd be a GM tracked thing. I like the fact you don't
just get better immediately, sort of stretches out the process a bit. But
its also another barrier to ease of use.

I'm totally happy for the change of Soul stuff. Sounds more appropriate. I
really like that you are considering this stuff and shifting it to fit
the way it all plays.

Cas and Andre. Thanks for the discussion I have mulled over this a bit,
but I'm not going to venture which directions I might be heading. I very
much think that Renee expected supernatural protection of some sort. Its
all pretty vague in this stuff, and he should be used to that. I don't
think he expected a physical person, certainly not one that seems to
have a life of its own. He (Andre) seems to be doing a good job of sort
of coming to terms with that as a possibility and sort of not. I want
him to be that unsure about it.

How does it affect Cas though? Fate has thrown her a fastball here. She
has the opportunity to hit it out of the park for some serious runs on
the board, or she can swing and miss for a big loss. I like that she
seems to be drawn to Renee in a way that she doesn't really understand,
or appreciate at times; she keeps finding herself looking out for him
or wasting *her* time on him for little immediate reward. And I like
the sense that she doesn't know why. Is it supernatural?  Well that's a
glib excuse that might work. Or is it just that deep down she can sense a
long-term goal here that is too good to miss, and that even when her sense
of immediate fulfilment kicks in there is a self-preservation portion that
is there to push her back. Renee represents a lot of what DMS offered,
without the risk of the involvement - its a very good deal for her...

As a GM, though, I'm definitely wondering to what expect there is a
link. Even if the spell did somehting, it could be as simple as pushing
their destinies a bit closer, or as complex as creating one entirely
for the other, including revising all of time to support it... I'm not
going to decide until I have to...

Message 6: Mon Aug 28 12:00:17 (read)
From: korg [To: caligari]
That'd be fine if you got me to write a web page to keep track of it ;)
Its a nightmare to keep track of tho... IMHO, this is very close to 
the ticks system, except here you are spending the experiance before
you get the skill rather waiting for the ticks and getting it 
instantly.

Not exactly, but you get what I mean? The ticks systems forces you to 
spread your expendature on stuff out? 
 
Did you envisage:
  week 1   dodge: 30-31
  week 2   dodge: 31-32
  week 2   dodge: 32-33
  week 4   dodge 31 arrives
  week 5   dodge 32 arrives
  week 5   dodge 33 arrives
Or do I have to wait until week4 to spend on dodge 31-32?
 
Id be inclined to say that if you used the skill then that counts as
practice. I also like the idea that if you really screw up a skill
that counts as learning too ;)

I could write a web page that keeps track of skill expendature and stuff 
if you want! :) :) 

Message 3: Mon Aug 28 12:00:57 (read)
From: caligari [To: korg]
Combat. I think there is a stun effect. I can't recall it clearly. Perhaps it
has to do with doing more than a certain threshold of points in one hit. Like
more than 10 or something. Or perhaps its just a matched suceess special result.
Perhaps you are always stuned for a number of rounds equal to the tens of the
damage (0 for less than 10, 1 for 10 to 19, etc)...

Message 4: Mon Aug 28 12:05:04 (read)
From: korg [To: caligari]
combat: some systems have a thing with a threshhold of damage vrs stamina
> which seems to work well for the james bond system anyway (when you
> take damage, you have to roll to shrug off the stuff effect and it gets
> harder for the level).
 
 
 I was just hoping that it wasnt like D&D where you are fine until 1 hp ;)
> heheheheheheh :)
 
Cas and Renee: I think cas see's a chance to get out of hood (probably clever
> now that she burnt DMS and the possie) and get some serious Green! :)^R
now that she burnt DMS and the possie) and get some serious Green! :)
> And renee is just the sucker to milk ;)

Let me try that again... (the rene and cas stuff)

Message 2: Mon Aug 28 12:08:57 (read)
From: caligari [To: korg]
Not trolling for presents. I have enough trouble with my family - I'm expensive
to buy for, and I know it. I'd just as soon they didn't bother with presents at
all - I like the celebration as a group activity. But each birthday makes me want
my grandmother gone more - we have to do them away from her, as birthdays bring
on serious melancholy. And that's not right - its a communal thing. Sigh.
 
If I do the experience thing, then I'll write something to keep track of it.
I need something to keep track of the characters anyway. And I need more python
practice... :)
 
I figure you can always spend points to raise things, even if you haven't got
the results of other raises yet. Perhaps that's a mistake, but otherwise its
really annoying going up a point at a time. I figure I can adjudicate idiotic
behaviour as a GM without special system stuff to do
it for me.
 

Message 1: Mon Aug 28 12:08:57 (read)
From: caligari [To: korg]
I still want to avoid considering in game activity as special with regards to
skills, especially as I an inconsistent on when to use them. But it takes more
than being in a lot of fights to be training an aspect of fighting. You'd have
to be *training* in fighting in a full-time way, not just working out, or just
fighting. Those are abstract requirements for the expenditure of the xp in
the first place.
 
Stamina is a part of Body, as are hit points. Its a stripped back system, so
there is not really another stat to work with. Anyway, stuns will happen when
it seems right, and aiming for them in combat will help that ('cause I'll
remember)...

Message 2: Mon Aug 28 12:16:26 (read)
From: korg [To: caligari]
birthdays :). its soo much fun teasing you ;). Yeah, im not big on 
birthdays. A big Meh for me, although its fun if people get together and 
have fun ;).
 
Experiance: go you python writeing DM of eeeeeeeeevil :)
 
I understand the not wanting in game thing. The tick systems has stopped 
working for vampire because we narrate everything and noone really uses
their skills that much (which I guess means they shouldnt be getting better ;)
Im ok with the 'need to be doing it thing too'. Maybe you could have
spent twice the ammount to raise without pracice? (lots of times people 
maynot have the time to practice). *shrugs* Maybe just try your idea 
(once you write the program ;) and see if it works or what?
 
The 'needing to wait before you spend again' forces characters to become
jack of all trades and the other lets you specialise quicker i guess. *shrugs*
Still no favorite for either of those ;)
 

Message 1: Mon Aug 28 12:16:26 (read)
From: korg [To: caligari]
Stamina & stun: *nod* I was going to try and narate all my combats anyway
 :) 

Renee and Cas: I think she sees him as a mark. He is coming across as
rich and able to be ripped off. He is a meal ticket currently. She can
sucker on to him and milk him to raise her own living standard and get 
out of the hood (which given she has just burnt the possie, Ice and DMS
is probably a good idea).

I think he can really help her position in life in terms of $$, saftey and
comfort, but I dont see Renee actually getting emotionally close to 
Cas. I think she will use him. DMS is more a danger emotionally because he
cares and is willing to put himself out for his bloods (Ie she can try and
push him away and he will keep comoing back).

Currently, Renee looks like a bit of a fool to Cas.
If the magic stuff comes out then I think she may have more respect
for him (I dunno show she will react to magic, I think it depends on
her first experiance of it, could be 'yeah, that makes sense' or 'eeek!' :)

When she learns that he summoned her, i think she is gunna flip. Yes its
probably good for her, but the idea she wasnt in control of her choices
is probably going to mean some major dental work for Renee (or some
other measure to reassert her `control' (ripping him off more, getting
more consessions from him, pushing him round) :) .


Message 2: Mon Aug 28 12:27:33 (read)
From: caligari [To: korg]
But she's *no* just ripping him off, which is neat to watch. I mean you can see
that she can feel she is, but she's actually helping him out, and watching his
back. He'd not know if she was just spinning bull, but she's not. She can't
help it. And that's very cool to watch.
 
I'm sure when she finds out is when I'm going to have to do some fancy footwork.
I have to keep her on the leash, but at the same time I have to allow the character
to feel that she has beaten the spell. That's going to be a tough time. I'm not
sure that she should be able to physically hurt him in a major way, if she's
within a spell, so I'llhave to make sure it doesn't come to that... :)

Message 2: Mon Aug 28 13:09:40 (unread)
From: korg [To: caligari]
:) Yeah. Thats the thing isnt it?
"Im rippin' you off, you sucker. But the longer you are safe, the longer
I can rip you off.... so Ill protect you just this bit longer" :)
And its all her own choice. Really ;)
 
When she finds out. My view is that Cas would threaten physical
violence (and maybe even bounce him round a little) but eventually 
settle on the 'You owe me!!! I should kick your head in and rip
your spine out, but while you pay me green, you keep your teeth.'
That way she asserts her superiority, without realiseing that she 
hasnt got anywhere. P) 

Thats why I figured the animal/predator soul.
Like lions, they are head of the pack, but the lionesses do all the
real work and proabably hold the actual day to day power. But the 
lion is king of the tussle, so he MUST be in charge, right? :) :)
Lion growls, gets what he wants and then everyone goes back to doing
whatever the hell they were doing before, but the lion feels in charge. ;)
 
I was thinking about faith/cas and faith hits stuff more often, but I 
dont feel there's been a situation where cas should have used violence yet.
(except maybe on Renee ;). Its cool that Cas is one of these, "im not
sure how it will turn out till we play it" characters. :)


Message 9: Mon Aug 28 14:18:02 (read)
From: caligari [To: korg]
I've been pretty pleased with how distinct from Faith Cas has become. They share
aspects, but your character is alive with her own essence. V cool. :)

Message 9: Mon Aug 28 14:36:43 (read)
From: korg [To: caligari]
Yeah. Me too. :) 

Message 2: Mon Aug 28 14:54:06 (read)
From: korg [To: caligari]
Re Cas/faith.....

I personally want to run the line of wanting to not need anyone and 
being independant and strong yet being empty and alone inside :). 

What a pretentious wanker I am ;)

I dont quite know where she sits on the ultra violence scale ;).
Im figuring sort of like a hunting animal, she stalks and then
pounces in for the kill. No skirmish, just straight to someone 
goes to hospital.


http://bifrost.earth.monash.edu.au/~korg/rpg/unknown.armies/stories/gifts.html

is a good short story for showing the sort of desire to fit in vrs not
actually saying anything and just brooding and feeling slighted and
hurt.

Ie she is a high maintanance girl, needing constant warm fuzzy
feedback to stroke her ego. Naturally if you get too close she lashes
out and then feels betrayed and angry that you moved away. If she
lashes out and you stay close then she freaks out, lashes out 
and runs (like with DMS ;).

Message 1: Mon Aug 28 14:54:07 (read)
From: korg [To: caligari]
Feel free to go crazy with DMS :). I was figuring that he sort of 
understands what happens, but it doesnt mean that others in his gang
wont be severly pissed at her (You cant trust these shifty white
people, they aint like us type thing :). Ice will probably just be
confused ;). Fixer will be licking his lips ;).

Oh hell, i didnt mean to make this quite so long again ;)




Message 4: Mon Sep  4 16:32:15 (read)
From: korg [To: caligari]
http://bifrost.earth.monash.edu.au/~korg/rpg/unknown.armies/diary.003.html
(story bit at the end)

Oh man im an angsty prat ;)

Message 1: Mon Sep  4 16:42:38 (read)
From: caligari [To: korg]
heh. Reads well. How long ago do you think this was?

Message 2: Mon Sep  4 16:51:19 (read)
From: korg [To: caligari]
*nails hand tragically to forhead* :) 

*shrugs* I dont know. I figure couldnt be too much time or DMS would
have tried to work things out. I figure she could probably avoid 
him for, what, a month or two? So thats probably the upper limit on it.

She probably made it public (and clear to the rest of the posse)
to 'help' DMS get over her. That probably made his life busy and hard
keeping the gang under control and making sure noone did a 'drive by'
on her ;).

Say 1.5 months ago? 

I was thinking about it on the weekend, and sort of concluded that
because physical strength is the only thing she can defend herself
with, that she probably sees her life as being over once she gets 
weak/old. I figured that she doesnt really have much to live for so 
she is probably looking to go out with a bang. (Ie no long term goals,
noone to care for her (she thinks), so life fast and die with a bang
before people take advantange of you).

Sort of why she would stay with Renee etc even if she knows they are
being followed and people are being ice'ed.

I was reading more fiction, (yeah yeah), and I hit a sentence that
really spoke to me about the character:

   Faith walked out the door, burning with anguish and disgust. She'd
   hurt the one person she ever truly loved, the only person who had
   truly loved her back. She fucked up, just like she always did,
   just like her mother always told her she would. But, she felt an
   eerie sense of calm. Things were back to normal. She could handle it
   now. No more confusion over a happiness she didn't deserve, no more
   worrying that one day, Buffy would wake up and see her for what she
   really was and turn her away in horror.

Angsty, eh? :) 

(tell me if you think im going too overboard ;)


Message 1: Mon Sep  4 16:53:13 (read)
From: caligari [To: korg]
Not overboard at all. Cool. Good to see its leading to reasons to stay with
the party, too... :)

Message 1: Mon Sep  4 16:59:55 (read)
From: korg [To: caligari]
:) I like the idea of 'flawed' villians (or nasty people who have a reason
to be nasty and all). I just got playing with the flaw idea ;)
 
(thats why I liked the gifts short story
  http://bifrost.earth.monash.edu.au/~korg/rpg/unknown.armies/stories/gifts.html
because it gives a faith point of view that lets you understand why she
went 'bad' (atleast from her point of view as a self absorbed prat ;)
or the line:

  She new where she would go now- the Mayor. Buffy hated her, and now
  Faith was empty. But at least Buffy was away from her, and hated
  her. That was the way it should be.

  Right?

which I just think are all peachy and angsty :) :) :)
)

I think her reason for staying at the moment is she gets to live teh 
high life, even for just a while, at the expense of the Doc's.

If she gets a reason to live later then thats a wonderful and warm 
fluffy bunny rabbit story later on ;). :) :) :)